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September 17, 2009


Max Krapp

I´m in fear, that they allready know, but they lie about this to the public. They try to get an advantage compared to the democrats, using the socialism screams of the angry masses against the them. But the republicans are also driven by the loud and angry rightwinged faction, which forces them to do so.
Even if the people would, I don`t think, that would change a thing.
Maybe if Obama was white enough for them. But because he is "too black", they hate him. As they do for the crushing defeat they had the last elections. There is no one there, who could be strong enough to tame the hatemongers, and so they set the republican agenda, no matter the facts (the article), no matter the cost (about 45000 people dead a year, like SpOn wrote).
Sad, but true...

John Axon

I take exception to the previous comments which bring race into an otherwise non-racial discussion.

I happen to be black, but disagree fervently with the idea of nationalizing health care.

I am also very familiar with German health care and can tell you first hand that it is not an ideal. It has many problems and is considered catastrophically broken by many physicians there.

Doctors are given impossible edicts of treating unattainable numbers of patients, with certain budgets, and to add insult to injury are told to deliver this care in an expedient, efficient, effective manner. For this reason, there has been a mass exodus of physicians retiring, leaving the country, or simply working only with private insures outside the system (i.e. the rich).

You mention the $80K salary. This is part of the problem and would not work in the US. Medical students in Germany don't pay for the schooling. In the US, docs fork out up to $250,000 to go to school. They earn nothing for 4 year of medical school (plus 4 years of undergraduate), then earn $40,000 for 4 to 6 years of residency and work 80-120 hours per week. If you think this 12-14 years of intense training with little to no pay plus 1/4 million investment should be compensated with less pay than some people make with a sales job (the $80K), then I think you haven't given this some serious thought. We are already in a serious shortage of docs, that will only make it worse. If you add the lack of serious tort reform (which by the way does exist in Europe) and I think you are basically creating a real problem.

I wish those of you who think health care is a right would think outside the box for a moment and realize that one man's right will ALWAYS become another man's burden.

The grass IS NOT greener on the other side of the pond. Germany's health care system is also on the brink of catastrophe and already has serious problems of rationing.



So what's the solution? We have 50 million uninsured and 100 million underinsured.

Also, did you read the Forbes piece? Germany does not have "nationalized" health care. It is blend of private and public solutions, which is why the authors feel it could be a model for the US.

Yes, there are certainly problems in the German system. But I don't know anyone in Germany - or Europe, UK or Canada - who would trade their system for the cruel one we have here in the US.

Max Krapp

@ John

It is nothing that I made up, when I talked about racism in this discussion.
And I don`t have to be black or any shape og colour, to recognize a hatemonger, when I see one. And there is not only one of them around.
Besides, I agree with Dave, most Germans wouldn´t want to change.
The system may not be perfect, but nobody would exspect that. It is way better than many other systems, including the US system.
And it will still be there, when the US system is long gone, if it is not changed in the most radical way.

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Germany has Europe's oldest universal health care system, with origins dating back to Otto von Bismarck's Social legislation, which included the Health Insurance Bill of 1883, Accident Insurance Bill of 1884, and Old Age and Disability Insurance Bill of 1889.

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erman sickness funds are required to be financially self-sufficient and premiums are set as a percentage of income. This percentage varies from fund to fund, with an average of 14 per cent, to fall to 13 per cent under Schroeder reforms. The premiums are deducted from pay packets with employer and employee paying half each.

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