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January 23, 2011



I wonder whether you also disapprove of the laws that prohibit lifting your right arm for the German salute or the criminalization of political organizations wearing uniforms?

Because should these bans be lifted, I would see a serious threat for our current system (which is why they are not lifted). The power of the masses enthralling the nation were quite visible recently at world cup events.


Zyme, I'd like to think that democracy is so firmly rooted in Germany that it can withstand a handful of idiots marching around in uniforms giving the Hitler salute.

Strahler 70

Objection, David! That's wishful thinking. The locations most frequently abused by that "handful of idiots" are soccer stadiums and clubs like Hansa Rostock work hard to keep them out. Indeed they are not only a handful, but hundreds or thousands in every major city. Allowing the Hitler salute before a TV audience of several million spectators, goal getters eventually giving back the salute to these "fans", would quickly open the gates for further fascist activities.


Exactly. Democracy is by no means firmly rooted. Instead what is firmly rooted is appreciation for a systems that produces wealth for most in the society.

And since our democracy gets ever worse at that, so does its appreciation sink ever since the late 90s.

David, don't you remember the surveys asking Germans whether there is a need for more than one political party? :-)

Chrétiens persécutés

Opinion (any kind of opinion) is free, or is not. In Europe, it's not.

Strahler 70

So if it was my opinion to kill all coloured people, watch child porn and trade hard drugs, the USA would be the perfect place to run a website advocating that?


Although I do not doubt the existence of the Holocaust, althgough I am not ati-semitic and not right-wing motivated, I am strictly against those anti-denial laws. In German courts no proofs of the statement for which the defendant is on trial are accepted. The defendant's lawyers, claiming to enter evidence are prosecuted for "denial" too. In the European Framework for the "Anti-Denial-Legislation" truth is no excuse*. One of the reasons for those laws is that "denial" or "relativating the severity" of the genocide is insulting the dignity of the deceased.
That point has several difficulties: 1. As seen after the official confirmation by the Russians, to be responsible for the Katyn massacres, the dignity of the deceased is not impaired in any way whoever murdered them and if they were murdered together with 1.000 or 10.000 others.
2. If truth is no excuse in court and the right of legal defense by proving a statement is abrogated, no more abhorrend and shameful insults to the dignity of the living people is possible.
Here those laws create what they maintain to prevent. Those laws are the shame of this century for any legal system. They bring us back to the time of inquisition and witch hunts.


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