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April 27, 2013

Comments

Zyme

Could it be that you over-evaluate the "stain of torture"?

Even in peaceful Germany do you remember how intensively the German judicial system shaked at the Gaefgen case, where the life of a single boy was at stake and torture was threatened?
Dont you think that the majority of German people would be fine with torture being applied to islamist suspects after a similar strike as 9/11 on German soil?
At the latest once further plans would be uncovered this way, they would consent.

It has started to become a topic here right now with German djihadists fighting in Syria - what will go one once they are back battle-hardened?
Have you read the other day about 50 % of Germans thinking that Islam itself is a threat to our society? Islam - not Islamism.
So much suspicion even without a 9/11 experience..

I think in case of a successful terror strike killing hundreds or more, people here would not allow to be fooled by them for long. When extremists mock our societies by relying on rights while plotting cold blooded murder, Germans would have even less problems than Americans in taking the gloves off.

David

@Zyme, I thought you are a lawyer!

It doesn't matter if the majority of Americans and Germans approve of torture. Torture violates the US Constitution as well as the Grundgesetz - so if we want to torture we first have to change the laws.

President Bush took an oath of office to uphold the US Constitution. Clearly, he failed to do so, and so should have been impeached.

Finally, there is not a shred of evidence that torture is an effective technique of interrogation. There is an abundance of evidence that torture produces unreliable or false information.

Zyme

David, being a lawyer should not limit one's creativity in finding solutions - a motto I am sure many German lawyers have approved of in the 30s ;-)

But you are right of course in that it would have to be regulated. Which would create a ton of modifications in each our legal systems.
One way might be what is called "Feindstrafrecht" in German law science. It distinguishes between foes and ordinary humans, undermining the equality of men.

Your last point of course is also very correct - at some point people would tell anything under pressure. The question is whether people would pay this notion any mind in a state of emergency.
But honestly David, what other robust means are there, except making suspects disappear?

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